Well one can only hope. Come on anon - if you're Spiteri or Marshall then I figure you're being quite sincere but anyone else, surely, is trying to enrage me?
it's an interesting one...and both sides have legit points of view...
In the end though, our quality of life has the potential to suffer if we are left open to mass migration from people of lower social economic regions.
Seares sent through a rather interesting email (yet to be verified) that refugees get on average higher monthly payouts than pensioners who have slaved for this country for 40-50 years.
We will be those pensioners in 30-40 years...
Manageability is the key to migration...again, it can't be a free for all open book.
Ah I totally suspected it was you, Spiteri. I don't think Seares is right, frankly, because that doesn't ring true for me at all but that's Seares for you (ahem, sorry man).
I know what you're saying but I also think this country was built on migration and needs more migration to continue to grow. Fifty years ago migrants and refugees copped the same sort of shit and the same old arguments would have cropped up. These days most of the people who came here escaping persecution or what-have-you are productive members of society. As far as I'm concerned nobody has to follow AFL or enjoy a BBQ to be considered welcome in Australian society.
Don't know about the example of London though - "diversity" is such a corny word but that place has it in spades and I think, mostly, it's the better for it.
Hey, I am a product of that massive migration...but difference there was the Europeans where very hard workers looking to make a difference and contribute.
I think refugees don't have that mentality at the fore of their thinking...they come here to escape a hard, persecuted life...and also bring over some of their troubles. The Sudanese (for example) live in a culture of violence and don't know much else...so naturally that’s going to come over with them...as demonstrated by recent events.
On the London thing...I think the cost of living sieves out most of the migrants...did you ever stop of and visit Birmingham for example? It's well known that centres like that have gone downhill since Brittan relaxes their migration policy...violence, vagrancy etc on the rise.
I know I live a pretty sheltered life but I have mixed with my fair share of refugees from here and there and I think all that most of them want is to be free from persecution and to make new lives for themselves.
Sure lots of them are escaping violence and might arguably (ARGUABLY) come from a culture of violence but that doesn't mean they bring their problems with them. More often I think the 'problems' surrounding refugees is that they come up against a culture of singlet-wearing Cronulla dicksnaps or a government that doesn't haven't a decent support programs in place.
For me the point is that these people are escaping horrors we can't really conceive of over here and we have the resources and the land capacity to accommodate them so we should do it. We need more understanding and tolerance, better programs to help them learn English and give them access to services that will help them eventually stand on their own feet. And we need to be patient.
Sure if they are escaping a country devastated by war or where they and/or their families have been persecuted some of them will, no doubt, be fairly messed up and slow to 'fit in' to our way of life. We should be trying to help them do that not just for their own sake but because they'll ultimately make 'better' citizens here.
I know I'm getting preachy but we should all be incredibly grateful that we get to be part of a country where we can (within reason) do what we want, say what we want and believe what we want and where we have access to health and education services that don't let us die of curable childhood disease and help us to be anything we want to. But we should also remember that these are not benefits enjoyed by the rest of the world and we are part of a lucky minority.
Dave Dave Dave...that’s a fairly typical reaction to someone else’s point of view that comes from people that hold narrow views such as yourself.
Learning to respect and hear other people's views is important and in turn saves you making a fool of yourself with stupid comments like your last post.
Don't get angry at people presenting an alternative view...no matter how much it goes against what you believe.
I like to look at all sides of the story and all points of view...unlike yourself obviously, who is blinded by their own arrogance.
Hit a nerve, did I? I must have if you see fit to call me narrow minded and arrogant. You're right though - you're more than entitled to your point of view - and I'm just as entitled to take it to pieces. Oh, and do yourself a favour. Don't preach to journalists about listening to both points of view. It's what we do for a living.
Perhaps you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes, Anonymous. I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Perhaps in another life, you may be born into a war-torn country and seek refuge from murder, torture and oppression. Australia takes far less REFUGEES than just about any other civilised country. But let's tar them all with the same brush shall we? Johnsy, I'm sure you have better things to do than rise to the fascist leanings of someone who clearly has no experience on the matter, nor has an empathetic bone in their body.
Anonymous, have you ever actually had a conversation with a refugee about their experience before or after coming to Australia (in particular a Sudanese refugee which you have sprouted outrageous generalisations about)? Maybe you can volunteer some time working with this group of people before you decide whether or not they are worth your compassion.
The real issue in this debate is not about Andrews reducing the Sudanese quota (an abhorrent concept from any viewpoint - how do you honestly determine which wartorn country is more needy?) but about his reasoning for doing so.
It was overt racism, and when he initially reduced the quota, he gave a false reason, he lied. He stated that Middle East/Asia is more needy of assistance. Several months later, in week before the election will be called, he says it's due to "integration" problems and gang violence.
This is 2007's Tampa. This is a dogwhistle to the hicks of Western Sydney, the Cronulla Constituents.
Anonymous, surely people from ravaged nations have MORE need for assistance, more need for compassion, and more need for acceptance.
Your assertion about welfare payments is flat-out WRONG. I worked for Centrelink. They do not get more. Infact, in most circumstances they get an anstonishing amount less, especially when taken into consideration with the earnings rules attached to their payment, usually called Special Payment, because under Centrelink's restrictive access provisions they are not entitled to any other payment until they have been in the country for 2 years.
Anonymous, your ill-informed judgements are the best reasons for abolishing universal suffrage I have ever heard. Alternatively, they are also a great reason to markedly improve our education system. I find it abhorrent that your kind of ignorance has been allowed to go unchecked. Let me say this, exposure brings understanding and understanding brings acceptance. Go and meet some refugees. Talk to them. I did. I worked as a refugee advocate. And let me tell you, the stuff they have been through would shake you to your very core. To say they have only known violence and come here to carry out more violence ignores everything from the immigration laws to the crime statistics. To suggest they don't work hard is also contrary to fact. Mostly the only thing stopping them working is the conditions the Government puts on their visas. Or the fact they are rotting in immigration detention centres rather than in a community and engaging with the community in a way that is constructive to both. To suggest that the people who have responded on this blog hold a minority view is not only patronising but disturbing. You really, really need to get out and meet some people outside of your own sphere. Seriously.
To quote Eric Cartman...you are all a bunch of tree hugging hippies :)
If it makes you all feel better inside supporting or demanding policies which in turn could adversely affect your own quality of life down the track then feel free...you will always be in the minority though.
I'm rather comfortable in myself trying to protect what I work very hard for...and there are a shit load of people out there who hold the same view.
How about you guys pay and look after these people and leave the rest of us to protect our own way of life which we have had the privlage to be born into.
Unlucky for some...life's a bitch for others...you take what you get.
You are a cold, cold person. And indeed, I hope you get what you deserve. You are an embarrassment to the free society you claim to work so hard for. That you would not want to share that prosperity with those less fortunate is pitiful and pathetic. I do not wish you well.
22 comments:
Come on Katie...he is doing the right thing...you lived in England and saw what happens when you open your borders without limits and controls.
This country can't afford to be an open book for migration.
I hope anonymous is being facetious...
And well said Kate. You crack me up.
I wouldnt know what that means :)
Well one can only hope. Come on anon - if you're Spiteri or Marshall then I figure you're being quite sincere but anyone else, surely, is trying to enrage me?
it's an interesting one...and both sides have legit points of view...
In the end though, our quality of life has the potential to suffer if we are left open to mass migration from people of lower social economic regions.
Seares sent through a rather interesting email (yet to be verified) that refugees get on average higher monthly payouts than pensioners who have slaved for this country for 40-50 years.
We will be those pensioners in 30-40 years...
Manageability is the key to migration...again, it can't be a free for all open book.
Ah I totally suspected it was you, Spiteri. I don't think Seares is right, frankly, because that doesn't ring true for me at all but that's Seares for you (ahem, sorry man).
I know what you're saying but I also think this country was built on migration and needs more migration to continue to grow. Fifty years ago migrants and refugees copped the same sort of shit and the same old arguments would have cropped up. These days most of the people who came here escaping persecution or what-have-you are productive members of society. As far as I'm concerned nobody has to follow AFL or enjoy a BBQ to be considered welcome in Australian society.
Don't know about the example of London though - "diversity" is such a corny word but that place has it in spades and I think, mostly, it's the better for it.
Hey, I am a product of that massive migration...but difference there was the Europeans where very hard workers looking to make a difference and contribute.
I think refugees don't have that mentality at the fore of their thinking...they come here to escape a hard, persecuted life...and also bring over some of their troubles. The Sudanese (for example) live in a culture of violence and don't know much else...so naturally that’s going to come over with them...as demonstrated by recent events.
On the London thing...I think the cost of living sieves out most of the migrants...did you ever stop of and visit Birmingham for example? It's well known that centres like that have gone downhill since Brittan relaxes their migration policy...violence, vagrancy etc on the rise.
Oh SPITERI, why do you make me cry?
I know I live a pretty sheltered life but I have mixed with my fair share of refugees from here and there and I think all that most of them want is to be free from persecution and to make new lives for themselves.
Sure lots of them are escaping violence and might arguably (ARGUABLY) come from a culture of violence but that doesn't mean they bring their problems with them. More often I think the 'problems' surrounding refugees is that they come up against a culture of singlet-wearing Cronulla dicksnaps or a government that doesn't haven't a decent support programs in place.
For me the point is that these people are escaping horrors we can't really conceive of over here and we have the resources and the land capacity to accommodate them so we should do it. We need more understanding and tolerance, better programs to help them learn English and give them access to services that will help them eventually stand on their own feet. And we need to be patient.
Sure if they are escaping a country devastated by war or where they and/or their families have been persecuted some of them will, no doubt, be fairly messed up and slow to 'fit in' to our way of life. We should be trying to help them do that not just for their own sake but because they'll ultimately make 'better' citizens here.
I know I'm getting preachy but we should all be incredibly grateful that we get to be part of a country where we can (within reason) do what we want, say what we want and believe what we want and where we have access to health and education services that don't let us die of curable childhood disease and help us to be anything we want to. But we should also remember that these are not benefits enjoyed by the rest of the world and we are part of a lucky minority.
Phew.
You should start your own minority party :)
Not until I have your vote, my pretty. I so wish I could change your mind.
Dave Dave Dave...that’s a fairly typical reaction to someone else’s point of view that comes from people that hold narrow views such as yourself.
Learning to respect and hear other people's views is important and in turn saves you making a fool of yourself with stupid comments like your last post.
Don't get angry at people presenting an alternative view...no matter how much it goes against what you believe.
I like to look at all sides of the story and all points of view...unlike yourself obviously, who is blinded by their own arrogance.
Now, now kids you play nice you hear.
Hit a nerve, did I?
I must have if you see fit to call me narrow minded and arrogant.
You're right though - you're more than entitled to your point of view - and I'm just as entitled to take it to pieces.
Oh, and do yourself a favour. Don't preach to journalists about listening to both points of view. It's what we do for a living.
Perhaps you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes, Anonymous. I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Perhaps in another life, you may be born into a war-torn country and seek refuge from murder, torture and oppression. Australia takes far less REFUGEES than just about any other civilised country. But let's tar them all with the same brush shall we? Johnsy, I'm sure you have better things to do than rise to the fascist leanings of someone who clearly has no experience on the matter, nor has an empathetic bone in their body.
Hey next time I have a party I am totally locking the three of you in a room together...
Anonymous, have you ever actually had a conversation with a refugee about their experience before or after coming to Australia (in particular a Sudanese refugee which you have sprouted outrageous generalisations about)? Maybe you can volunteer some time working with this group of people before you decide whether or not they are worth your compassion.
Oooooh I love a good argument!
The real issue in this debate is not about Andrews reducing the Sudanese quota (an abhorrent concept from any viewpoint - how do you honestly determine which wartorn country is more needy?) but about his reasoning for doing so.
It was overt racism, and when he initially reduced the quota, he gave a false reason, he lied. He stated that Middle East/Asia is more needy of assistance. Several months later, in week before the election will be called, he says it's due to "integration" problems and gang violence.
This is 2007's Tampa. This is a dogwhistle to the hicks of Western Sydney, the Cronulla Constituents.
Anonymous, surely people from ravaged nations have MORE need for assistance, more need for compassion, and more need for acceptance.
Your assertion about welfare payments is flat-out WRONG. I worked for Centrelink. They do not get more. Infact, in most circumstances they get an anstonishing amount less, especially when taken into consideration with the earnings rules attached to their payment, usually called Special Payment, because under Centrelink's restrictive access provisions they are not entitled to any other payment until they have been in the country for 2 years.
Anonymous, your ill-informed judgements are the best reasons for abolishing universal suffrage I have ever heard.
Alternatively, they are also a great reason to markedly improve our education system. I find it abhorrent that your kind of ignorance has been allowed to go unchecked.
Let me say this, exposure brings understanding and understanding brings acceptance. Go and meet some refugees. Talk to them.
I did. I worked as a refugee advocate. And let me tell you, the stuff they have been through would shake you to your very core. To say they have only known violence and come here to carry out more violence ignores everything from the immigration laws to the crime statistics. To suggest they don't work hard is also contrary to fact. Mostly the only thing stopping them working is the conditions the Government puts on their visas. Or the fact they are rotting in immigration detention centres rather than in a community and engaging with the community in a way that is constructive to both.
To suggest that the people who have responded on this blog hold a minority view is not only patronising but disturbing. You really, really need to get out and meet some people outside of your own sphere. Seriously.
To quote Eric Cartman...you are all a bunch of tree hugging hippies :)
If it makes you all feel better inside supporting or demanding policies which in turn could adversely affect your own quality of life down the track then feel free...you will always be in the minority though.
I'm rather comfortable in myself trying to protect what I work very hard for...and there are a shit load of people out there who hold the same view.
How about you guys pay and look after these people and leave the rest of us to protect our own way of life which we have had the privlage to be born into.
Unlucky for some...life's a bitch for others...you take what you get.
You are a cold, cold person. And indeed, I hope you get what you deserve.
You are an embarrassment to the free society you claim to work so hard for.
That you would not want to share that prosperity with those less fortunate is pitiful and pathetic.
I do not wish you well.
Quoting Eric Cartman pretty much sums you up...
The world would be a very boring place without alternative points of view.
There is no fun in everyone agreeing now....is there?
-different anonymous
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